DJ Shadow: Interview with 30music
We finally got the opportunity to sit down with DJ Shadow and ask him the question that has been the staple to all our interviews: “What were you listening to at age 17?” We talk about other stuff, too. Like his new album and just exactly what he did with himself after nine months on the road supporting 2002’s major label debut, The Private Press.
Ten years after Endtroducing, four years after The Private Press, eight months after 2005, DJ Shadow is again subject of broad speculation - more accurately, maybe, cautious skepticism - naturally surrounding the imminent release of his third proper full-length, The Outsider. But it's likely more complicated than just that. What we have in DJ Shadow is an artist who will never escape his effected influence, an artist who will cease to be actively relevant only when he decides the times have passed him by. In any medium, such an artist is incredibly rare, and through existence intrinsically makes the notion of extended preeminence seemingly unbelievable - literally unbelievable. Here is the root of uncertainty; here is where all of the questions arise. Good thing we had twenty minutes to ask ours.
30: What do you think the listening public expects of DJ Shadow in 2006?
DJ Shadow: Um...that's an interesting question...I guess I can answer that by saying what I hope the answer should be, and what I sort of feel that I would like the answer to be, which is, "Challenging." Not just Endtroducing rehashed. That's the biggest challenge that I seem to have. One thing I realized, actually like just in the last week, is that I have fans and then I have fans of that album and that album only - being Endtroducing. I think I was confused about that before, because I couldn't understand why fans kept asking me to do something which I was never ever going to do, which is rehash Entroducing. And then I realized, "Well, wait a minute, maybe they're not fans; maybe they like just that record." And so once I sort of realized that I went, "Oh, OK," and found it easier to take any possible criticism about what I'm doing now, which is simply manifesting my love for all of these different types of music that I indulge in on this new album. So, I think it would have been a really, really bad cop out, and really lazy for me to just revisit old territory - unfortunately I just can't do it.
30: So, what is it like for you to know that so many people are anticipating what you're doing at this point in your career?
DJ Shadow: I think I'm OK with it now; I think I'm a little more mature, and I think I'm really able to be honest about my own body of work and my own output in the same way that I think I can be honest about other peoples'. I think in some weird way I had a real...between the beginning of my career all the way up to '98 or so, I had this incredible run with the press where it was like I could do no wrong. And I think I started to take that for granted. So, over the years I became more adjusted and able to deal better with criticism - be it legitimate criticism, or, "Oh, someone's just trying to be funny." Especially now, with the internet, you have to have a really thick skin, because people talk all kinds of shit when nobody knows who they are. You know what I mean?
30: Right, right...you mentioned earlier that on this album you delve into various sounds, various styles. The one I think that's been getting the most press would be the hyphy sound. How would you explain to someone who's not familiar with hyphy, what it's all about?
DJ Shadow: I can tell you my understanding of it - obviously I'm not...I always try to be quick to point out that I'm a good ten years older than most people involved in the scene, and I don't go to sydeshows - I've never been to a sydeshow. I mean, to me, in essence, hyphy is what living in the Bay sounds like. It speaks to everyone from the ages 15 to 25 - I'd say mainly, but not exclusively, because I'm 34 and I love it. To me it's an extension of a long lineage of strange musical hybrids to emerge from the Bay combined with a sense of humor that you can find in Sly Stone from Vallejo, same place as E-40 and Turf Talk years later. Even up to songs like Digital Underground's "Humpty Dance," which was a really odd...you know, it was a really strange song when you think about it. In the annals of pop and rap history there was a guy taking on a character with a schnoz, and... [laughs] You know what I'm saying? It was very strange. And hyphy is basically a little crunk added with completely different jokes, because ecstasy moved from rave culture to hip-hop culture in the Bay. So, the beats are faster - as fast as hip-hop can allow in this day and age - and it's fun...And the lyrics are very, very clever. I challenge anybody in hip-hop anywhere to say that people in hyphy can't rap, because they canall rap.
30: So, how and when did you first get involved with the movement?
DJ Shadow: When it first started getting radio play. A lot of the key elder figures in the scene used to make mobb music, which was the main sound coming out of the Bay for years and years. And that's what E-40 and the Click made in the mid- to late-'90s. But starting around the late-'90s, early-2000s Mac Dre and 3X Krazy, which is Keak [da Sneak]'s first group, by the way...the music started to change a little bit, people started to get a little bit tired of the mobb sound, people started experimenting with different rap styles, and I think the person who broke it open musically was Rick Rock, a producer from the Bay. And I think the lyrical inspiration from people like Keak and Mac Dre, E-40, combined with the music of Rick Rock and a lot of really hungry, really talented young dudes, like Turf Talk...man, it goes on and on: Hoodstarz, the Team, you name it, it all stared getting radio play around late 2002, early 2003. And a huge record for the Bay was Federation's "Hyphy." That record really showed people in the Bay that people will support you if you play local artists. So after that really kicked the doors down you just started hearing the more local artists that radio played the more people tuned in and the more people supported it. So, it just fed back into each other over, and over, and over again.
30: Getting into how you make your music, I was really impressed to learn that when you were creating The Private Press, you were doing it without the use of any software or computer programs, basically just by sampler [in the same method as Endtroducing], because so much time had passed between Endtroducing and what was then your new album. I'm wondering if anything changed in your composition process during the making of The Outsider?
DJ Shadow: Yeah, exponentially. The Private Press was me trying to master and finish a sort of discipline of working. So, I had at various times two or three MPCs MIDI'd together so that I was no longer bound by number of pads or memory or anything like that. And I think that created a sound on The Private Press that I won't be able to attain again, because I won't work in that way again. And after I did The Private Press, which was a hard record to make...it was a bit laborious - and I don't mean that to sound negative - it was methodical, and it took a long time to make. I knew immediately after finishing The Private Press that I was never going to make another album on the MPC again, because I just felt like, "What's the point?" You know, I felt like that was as good as I could do; I felt that I had just done my best on that machine, and I had been living with that machine, at that point, for just over ten years. I was ready for something new. And I didn't have to worry about it for a while, because I went on tour for nine months and then took three months off. And when I came back, I just sat down for the better part of a year and threw away the rule book and started using a lot of software, and synths, and keyboards, and MIDI, and learning how to write my own music...and really, it was the biggest musical progression that I had made as far as equipment and how I worked since I started making records.
30: You mentioned that you toured for nine months following The Private Press and then took three months off...I guess...I'm thinking back to a journal entry you had on your website, it appeared to me at the time, when all of that was through, that you kind of disassociated with the music business, or that you were trying to mentally detach yourself from that - again, this is just how it appeared to me, at the time. I'm wondering if you could tell me what your life was like at that point - following the tour...with the new label, higher expectations, things like that?
DJ Shadow: You mean comparing then to now, so to speak?
30: I guess...Well, that point in your life really fascinated me, because I, personally, had no idea where you were going to go from there...because it appeared that the touring may have taken its toll, as well as any difficulties you may have had with the label.
DJ Shadow: Yeah. It was...The best I can tell you is that after I finished touring...Well, to be totally candid, I mean of course I was disappointed with the...I was disappointed with the effort that MCA had made in getting behind The Private Press. It was one of those typical scenarios where, "We'll see how it does the first week," the second week, "Oh, oh, OK, well, I guess we're done." You know, it's demoralizing, because I don't put out records every day. So, I found myself on the road just going, "What is the point of this?" I mean, the record had kind of run its course, and there I was, still touring. And then to kind of really drive the nail into the coffin, I came off the road and realized I had toured for nine months and not made any money. Literally, I was looking at the catering guy going, "Damn, you made more money than me." (Laughs) Like, "You catered for two weeks and you just made more than me, being on the road for nine months." So, I kind of came off the road and was like, "Wow, I don't know." And I built up a lot of anger, and was probably quite bitter as well. I felt a little bit injured that people hadn't let the album be what...you know a lot of people were trying to compare it to Endtroducing and I just felt like that was a bit idiotic. So, I just felt a little bit disillusioned, and...I also found myself yelling at people a lot. And I think that was a product of the adrenaline high that you get addicted to. I suppose it'd be like being addicted to sex, or anything that gives you an adrenaline rush. I mean, if you're on stage for nine months, and then you suddenly stop, you find yourself provoking adrenaline moments to get that fix. So, I found myself yelling a lot and getting into arguments, and that's when I realized that I really needed to take a break and just back off. And what I basically did was...I was just adrift. I had no future plans. I had no obligations to anybody. I had no idea what I was supposed to do, or what I was going to do. I knew I was still going to make music - that's always in my game plan - but whether it's for me and 50 friends or for the world was as yet undermined. So, to flash-forward from then to now, there were a lot of...that year I spent learning how to make music again really helped. And then of course experiencing something much larger than any record company nonsense, in the birth of my twin girls was another thing that really screwed my head back on.
30: Cut Chemist recently said that, these days, the emphasis in sampling or the trend seems to be more about how a sample is used than where it actually comes from. How do you feel about that idea?
DJ Shadow: I agree in a certain respect, especially when I hear...I just heard this track Spinna did, where he chopped up "Ike's Mood" by Isaac Hayes in a really unique way, and I was like, "Hmm." I think a lot of that comes from the snobbery of the digging generation, especially when so many of them are just like Google and eBay "diggers," quote-unquote. You know? I could care less...like so many people think that I have endless patience for talking about...you know...it's funny to me. I love records. And I dig for records whenever I have the chance. To me it's a social exercise, and it's not, to me, about bragging rights, or being able to say that I used more records than anybody ever used on a song or any of that stupid shit. I enjoy what I do, and I enjoy contributing to the canon of sample-based music when I can. So, to get back to your question, yes, I agree with Cut.
30: Well, we're kind of running out of time, so I'll just ask if there's anything that we didn't talk about, or that you'd like people to know going into the release of the new album?
DJ Shadow: I guess, if I didn't say it already, I would just like people to have an open mind, and consider this album a unique offering in the marketplace of music, because I don't think there are too many albums that are this diverse. And that I'm doing it because I think people can handle it, and I hope I'm right. I hope I'm not wrong.
30: What were you listening to at age 17?
DJ Shadow: That's the pivotal year - it certainly was for me.Paul's Boutique, 3 Feet High and Rising - obviously Beastie Boys and De La Soul. NWA's Straight Outta Compton, followed maybe nine months later, although I was still 17, I remember very vividly when it came out, was Ice Cube's AmeriKKKa's Most Wanted. I was on my senior trip down to Disneyland in a bus and my friend Chris Rivers [note:This may be an incorrect spelling of Chris Rivers - sorry] had just bought the cassette - it had just come out that day - and within the first 30 seconds I just took the headphones off, turned around and looked at him, and was just like, "Holy shit." So, those were the big ones, definitely: Paul's Boutique, 3 Feet High and Rising, Straight Outta Compton and AmeriKKKa's Most Wanted. Then I remember...man, Special Ed...I was a hip-hop freak. Literally, everything that came out, if I didn't buy it I knew someone that did and I dubbed it. And that's all I was listening to back then. Although I had a soft spot for latin hip-hop. Which in retrospect I guess people call it heartthrob, which is that sweet...like, groups like Exposé and Sweet Sensation, those were the successful groups. There were tons and tons of one-hit wonders or no-hit wonders that did 12-inches where the themes were cute girls who wanted to dance with a boy in a club but didn't know how to approach him. And the beats were always really fast and had a lot of edits. I had a soft spot for that kind of music as well, because it was good music to kind of...you know, like, girls like that music and it's good to relate to what girls like.
SOURCE
We finally got the opportunity to sit down with DJ Shadow and ask him the question that has been the staple to all our interviews: “What were you listening to at age 17?” We talk about other stuff, too. Like his new album and just exactly what he did with himself after nine months on the road supporting 2002’s major label debut, The Private Press.
Ten years after Endtroducing, four years after The Private Press, eight months after 2005, DJ Shadow is again subject of broad speculation - more accurately, maybe, cautious skepticism - naturally surrounding the imminent release of his third proper full-length, The Outsider. But it's likely more complicated than just that. What we have in DJ Shadow is an artist who will never escape his effected influence, an artist who will cease to be actively relevant only when he decides the times have passed him by. In any medium, such an artist is incredibly rare, and through existence intrinsically makes the notion of extended preeminence seemingly unbelievable - literally unbelievable. Here is the root of uncertainty; here is where all of the questions arise. Good thing we had twenty minutes to ask ours.
30: What do you think the listening public expects of DJ Shadow in 2006?
DJ Shadow: Um...that's an interesting question...I guess I can answer that by saying what I hope the answer should be, and what I sort of feel that I would like the answer to be, which is, "Challenging." Not just Endtroducing rehashed. That's the biggest challenge that I seem to have. One thing I realized, actually like just in the last week, is that I have fans and then I have fans of that album and that album only - being Endtroducing. I think I was confused about that before, because I couldn't understand why fans kept asking me to do something which I was never ever going to do, which is rehash Entroducing. And then I realized, "Well, wait a minute, maybe they're not fans; maybe they like just that record." And so once I sort of realized that I went, "Oh, OK," and found it easier to take any possible criticism about what I'm doing now, which is simply manifesting my love for all of these different types of music that I indulge in on this new album. So, I think it would have been a really, really bad cop out, and really lazy for me to just revisit old territory - unfortunately I just can't do it.
30: So, what is it like for you to know that so many people are anticipating what you're doing at this point in your career?
DJ Shadow: I think I'm OK with it now; I think I'm a little more mature, and I think I'm really able to be honest about my own body of work and my own output in the same way that I think I can be honest about other peoples'. I think in some weird way I had a real...between the beginning of my career all the way up to '98 or so, I had this incredible run with the press where it was like I could do no wrong. And I think I started to take that for granted. So, over the years I became more adjusted and able to deal better with criticism - be it legitimate criticism, or, "Oh, someone's just trying to be funny." Especially now, with the internet, you have to have a really thick skin, because people talk all kinds of shit when nobody knows who they are. You know what I mean?
30: Right, right...you mentioned earlier that on this album you delve into various sounds, various styles. The one I think that's been getting the most press would be the hyphy sound. How would you explain to someone who's not familiar with hyphy, what it's all about?
DJ Shadow: I can tell you my understanding of it - obviously I'm not...I always try to be quick to point out that I'm a good ten years older than most people involved in the scene, and I don't go to sydeshows - I've never been to a sydeshow. I mean, to me, in essence, hyphy is what living in the Bay sounds like. It speaks to everyone from the ages 15 to 25 - I'd say mainly, but not exclusively, because I'm 34 and I love it. To me it's an extension of a long lineage of strange musical hybrids to emerge from the Bay combined with a sense of humor that you can find in Sly Stone from Vallejo, same place as E-40 and Turf Talk years later. Even up to songs like Digital Underground's "Humpty Dance," which was a really odd...you know, it was a really strange song when you think about it. In the annals of pop and rap history there was a guy taking on a character with a schnoz, and... [laughs] You know what I'm saying? It was very strange. And hyphy is basically a little crunk added with completely different jokes, because ecstasy moved from rave culture to hip-hop culture in the Bay. So, the beats are faster - as fast as hip-hop can allow in this day and age - and it's fun...And the lyrics are very, very clever. I challenge anybody in hip-hop anywhere to say that people in hyphy can't rap, because they canall rap.
30: So, how and when did you first get involved with the movement?
DJ Shadow: When it first started getting radio play. A lot of the key elder figures in the scene used to make mobb music, which was the main sound coming out of the Bay for years and years. And that's what E-40 and the Click made in the mid- to late-'90s. But starting around the late-'90s, early-2000s Mac Dre and 3X Krazy, which is Keak [da Sneak]'s first group, by the way...the music started to change a little bit, people started to get a little bit tired of the mobb sound, people started experimenting with different rap styles, and I think the person who broke it open musically was Rick Rock, a producer from the Bay. And I think the lyrical inspiration from people like Keak and Mac Dre, E-40, combined with the music of Rick Rock and a lot of really hungry, really talented young dudes, like Turf Talk...man, it goes on and on: Hoodstarz, the Team, you name it, it all stared getting radio play around late 2002, early 2003. And a huge record for the Bay was Federation's "Hyphy." That record really showed people in the Bay that people will support you if you play local artists. So after that really kicked the doors down you just started hearing the more local artists that radio played the more people tuned in and the more people supported it. So, it just fed back into each other over, and over, and over again.
30: Getting into how you make your music, I was really impressed to learn that when you were creating The Private Press, you were doing it without the use of any software or computer programs, basically just by sampler [in the same method as Endtroducing], because so much time had passed between Endtroducing and what was then your new album. I'm wondering if anything changed in your composition process during the making of The Outsider?
DJ Shadow: Yeah, exponentially. The Private Press was me trying to master and finish a sort of discipline of working. So, I had at various times two or three MPCs MIDI'd together so that I was no longer bound by number of pads or memory or anything like that. And I think that created a sound on The Private Press that I won't be able to attain again, because I won't work in that way again. And after I did The Private Press, which was a hard record to make...it was a bit laborious - and I don't mean that to sound negative - it was methodical, and it took a long time to make. I knew immediately after finishing The Private Press that I was never going to make another album on the MPC again, because I just felt like, "What's the point?" You know, I felt like that was as good as I could do; I felt that I had just done my best on that machine, and I had been living with that machine, at that point, for just over ten years. I was ready for something new. And I didn't have to worry about it for a while, because I went on tour for nine months and then took three months off. And when I came back, I just sat down for the better part of a year and threw away the rule book and started using a lot of software, and synths, and keyboards, and MIDI, and learning how to write my own music...and really, it was the biggest musical progression that I had made as far as equipment and how I worked since I started making records.
30: You mentioned that you toured for nine months following The Private Press and then took three months off...I guess...I'm thinking back to a journal entry you had on your website, it appeared to me at the time, when all of that was through, that you kind of disassociated with the music business, or that you were trying to mentally detach yourself from that - again, this is just how it appeared to me, at the time. I'm wondering if you could tell me what your life was like at that point - following the tour...with the new label, higher expectations, things like that?
DJ Shadow: You mean comparing then to now, so to speak?
30: I guess...Well, that point in your life really fascinated me, because I, personally, had no idea where you were going to go from there...because it appeared that the touring may have taken its toll, as well as any difficulties you may have had with the label.
DJ Shadow: Yeah. It was...The best I can tell you is that after I finished touring...Well, to be totally candid, I mean of course I was disappointed with the...I was disappointed with the effort that MCA had made in getting behind The Private Press. It was one of those typical scenarios where, "We'll see how it does the first week," the second week, "Oh, oh, OK, well, I guess we're done." You know, it's demoralizing, because I don't put out records every day. So, I found myself on the road just going, "What is the point of this?" I mean, the record had kind of run its course, and there I was, still touring. And then to kind of really drive the nail into the coffin, I came off the road and realized I had toured for nine months and not made any money. Literally, I was looking at the catering guy going, "Damn, you made more money than me." (Laughs) Like, "You catered for two weeks and you just made more than me, being on the road for nine months." So, I kind of came off the road and was like, "Wow, I don't know." And I built up a lot of anger, and was probably quite bitter as well. I felt a little bit injured that people hadn't let the album be what...you know a lot of people were trying to compare it to Endtroducing and I just felt like that was a bit idiotic. So, I just felt a little bit disillusioned, and...I also found myself yelling at people a lot. And I think that was a product of the adrenaline high that you get addicted to. I suppose it'd be like being addicted to sex, or anything that gives you an adrenaline rush. I mean, if you're on stage for nine months, and then you suddenly stop, you find yourself provoking adrenaline moments to get that fix. So, I found myself yelling a lot and getting into arguments, and that's when I realized that I really needed to take a break and just back off. And what I basically did was...I was just adrift. I had no future plans. I had no obligations to anybody. I had no idea what I was supposed to do, or what I was going to do. I knew I was still going to make music - that's always in my game plan - but whether it's for me and 50 friends or for the world was as yet undermined. So, to flash-forward from then to now, there were a lot of...that year I spent learning how to make music again really helped. And then of course experiencing something much larger than any record company nonsense, in the birth of my twin girls was another thing that really screwed my head back on.
30: Cut Chemist recently said that, these days, the emphasis in sampling or the trend seems to be more about how a sample is used than where it actually comes from. How do you feel about that idea?
DJ Shadow: I agree in a certain respect, especially when I hear...I just heard this track Spinna did, where he chopped up "Ike's Mood" by Isaac Hayes in a really unique way, and I was like, "Hmm." I think a lot of that comes from the snobbery of the digging generation, especially when so many of them are just like Google and eBay "diggers," quote-unquote. You know? I could care less...like so many people think that I have endless patience for talking about...you know...it's funny to me. I love records. And I dig for records whenever I have the chance. To me it's a social exercise, and it's not, to me, about bragging rights, or being able to say that I used more records than anybody ever used on a song or any of that stupid shit. I enjoy what I do, and I enjoy contributing to the canon of sample-based music when I can. So, to get back to your question, yes, I agree with Cut.
30: Well, we're kind of running out of time, so I'll just ask if there's anything that we didn't talk about, or that you'd like people to know going into the release of the new album?
DJ Shadow: I guess, if I didn't say it already, I would just like people to have an open mind, and consider this album a unique offering in the marketplace of music, because I don't think there are too many albums that are this diverse. And that I'm doing it because I think people can handle it, and I hope I'm right. I hope I'm not wrong.
30: What were you listening to at age 17?
DJ Shadow: That's the pivotal year - it certainly was for me.Paul's Boutique, 3 Feet High and Rising - obviously Beastie Boys and De La Soul. NWA's Straight Outta Compton, followed maybe nine months later, although I was still 17, I remember very vividly when it came out, was Ice Cube's AmeriKKKa's Most Wanted. I was on my senior trip down to Disneyland in a bus and my friend Chris Rivers [note:This may be an incorrect spelling of Chris Rivers - sorry] had just bought the cassette - it had just come out that day - and within the first 30 seconds I just took the headphones off, turned around and looked at him, and was just like, "Holy shit." So, those were the big ones, definitely: Paul's Boutique, 3 Feet High and Rising, Straight Outta Compton and AmeriKKKa's Most Wanted. Then I remember...man, Special Ed...I was a hip-hop freak. Literally, everything that came out, if I didn't buy it I knew someone that did and I dubbed it. And that's all I was listening to back then. Although I had a soft spot for latin hip-hop. Which in retrospect I guess people call it heartthrob, which is that sweet...like, groups like Exposé and Sweet Sensation, those were the successful groups. There were tons and tons of one-hit wonders or no-hit wonders that did 12-inches where the themes were cute girls who wanted to dance with a boy in a club but didn't know how to approach him. And the beats were always really fast and had a lot of edits. I had a soft spot for that kind of music as well, because it was good music to kind of...you know, like, girls like that music and it's good to relate to what girls like.
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